Thanks, for sticking up for me. I'm trying to defuse a possible situation between my providers, myself and the payers. It's very sticky, but I came across this situation. I'm trying to understand it better so I can figure out which angle to approach it. My providers are saying a lot of conflicting things. The latest being that they cannot code a family with a v-code because it won't get paid. They bill the indivuals, and identify them in the documentation so they do get paid. I fully agree, you bill what you've done and diagnose only what's wrong. I'm just getting more information from the forum posts, if the "guru" gets upset that's their own problem. Thanks again.