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AAPC Challenge

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Debra Mitchell, I am actually preparing to take the CPC and I, too, chose the 90710 code, because I did not see where it said they were administered separately. I suppose in a real-life situation you would have to ask the doctor ...
 
Just tried the video for case #3 at 8:45 am Central time on Friday. It is still marked as a "private" video. I usually like to give the benefit of the doubt, but why is straightening out the issue with the videos so "challenging"?

I also believe that including the rationale behind the answers for the cases would be very helpful, perhaps the same way Clinical Coding Workout provides the answers to their exercises? At least then we could discuss why we think the answer is incorrect in a more informed manner. That probably would take more time and work on this "contest" than AAPC intended...
 
kmrenda@optonline.net said:
Debra Mitchell, I am actually preparing to take the CPC and I, too, chose the 90710 code, because I did not see where it said they were administered separately. I suppose in a real-life situation you would have to ask the doctor ...
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Thank you! I thought I was crazy for a bit there. In a real office chart you would have note where the nurse would specify the injection site and exactly what each injection consisted of. Otherwise to me it is a guessing game and I guessed poorly.
 
These answers took me completely by surprise. :confused:

For preventive exams with immunizations, V20.2 can be put on the immunizations without the specific vaccination V codes OR V0.20 plus the vaccination codes per ICD-9 guidelines, categories of V codes, inoculations and vaccinations.

I also would like to see a rationale for these answers.

Carmen R. Lassiter, CPC
TrustHCS.com
 
On case #3 it clearly shows the vaccinations were given seperately. It says MMR administered, IPV administered, DTap administered, Comvax-HIB administered and Varicella administered. It did not say MMRV administered or DTap-IPV administered. The only combination code was the Comvax-HIB(HepB-HIB). The key to coding is reading in between in lines. The provider did not have to say they were administered seperately. By him/her saying administered after each vaccine shows they were seperate.
 
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crlassiter said:
These answers took me completely by surprise. :confused:

For preventive exams with immunizations, V20.2 can be put on the immunizations without the specific vaccination V codes OR V0.20 plus the vaccination codes per ICD-9 guidelines, categories of V codes, inoculations and vaccinations.

I also would like to see a rationale for these answers.

Carmen R. Lassiter, CPC
TrustHCS.com
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Thank you! I thought maybe I was going crazy. Glad to see there are others here who are thinking differently than the answers from AAPC.

The guidelines say: "A code from V03-V06 MAY be used as a secondary code if the inoculation is given as a routine part of preventive health care, such as well-baby visit."

And under V20.2 it says: "Routine infant or child health check. Any injections given should have a corresponding procedure code."

I interpret this as not needing separate V codes.

I also have found errors in material from AAPC. When I was first learning I thought maybe I was not "getting" it, but now I see some of those were just errors on AAPC's end.
 
case #4

Okay how did they get 10060 as the cpt code when it specifically stated multiple abscess on the back? that is incorrect per CPT book 10061 is for complicated or multiple. where are they getting these answers from?
 
I also got 10061 as there were multiple abscesses and the tx was considered complicated as evidenced by the use of gauze packing and purulent material. One cannot just put key words into a coder and select the first code that pops up to be correct, you have to look at all the codes in the group/section and select the correct one based on the documentation. This is true for the book method or any electronic coder being used.
I agree with you all - a rationale would be helpful.
 
case 4

Yes, I agree, the correct code should be 10061. Multiple abscesses were incised and they were packed. This should definitely have been coded a 10061 instead of 10060. You have to be careful of what you type in for your search. She should have searched for complicated incision and drainage.

I also agree that case number 2 should be 729.1 instead of 724.1. She searched thoracic pain instead of myofascial pain. Will these be looked at and corrected? :confused:
 
martnel said:
Me too! 10061 - multiple!

Do we only code the procedure, what about the ER visit?
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I also used the code 10061( incision and drainage of abscesses,complicated or multiple). It is clearly stated in the case that it is "multiple abscesses in his lower back". ER visit 99281-25.

To the persons involved in this challenge, as what I have suggested in my former message, maybe it's better to include the rationale, so we will know our mistakes and do better next time. I am joining this contest NOT to WIN but to test my knowledge. I did my online course,CPC, thru AAPC and passed the test on the first try, but now I'm feeling a bit frustrated. I haven't got any correct answer yet for the 4 cases, how much more if I get a job and code in the real world. I need to practice more.


Marissa Reyes,MD,CPC
 
Marissa, that's what I got too! 99281-25, 10061 and 682.2 - seems to me we just can't get it the way they get it (whether right or wrong). I am never too old to learn, but I also don't want to learn the wrong thing, right now it is very confusing. Most of these are not anything I do on a daily basis, but I thought I've got the "recipe" of how to code, and I guess I don't...
 
Well I use a book the old fashioned and correct way to code. It clearly states IN THE BOOK that 10060 is single and 10061 is multiple. So what I want to know is how did any one get the answer to be counted correct?? I am sorry I love my profession and I have always stood up for the AAPC, having said that I am not participating in this any longer. It is very easy to see how some coders get incorrect answers using electronic look up. I am frustrated and unhappy, that would be ICD-10 code R45.2!
 
Yes, I agree. I have got 729.1 on Case 2 and 10061 for on case 4 and no -25 modifier required for 99382 (preventive) on case 3 per guidelines.

Would really appreciate if any rationale can be given.

Thanks in advance!
 
wrong, wrong, wrong!

Okay, so they say the answer is 10060, 682.2
(No Emergency room E&M since there was no documentation of a visit)
This is ABSOLUTELY incorrect. The CPT should be 10061 for MULTIPLE abscesses incised and drained. I am currently wondering if the lady presenting this is a coder or not... I seriously hope not.

I believe I have just lost a little respect for the AAPC as a whole. This is my credentialing organization? I'm surprised I passed their exam, since I can't figure out the answers to this "challenge".

It's pretty sad to think about the "winners" getting the rewards and prizes for incorrect coding :eek:.

I may just be done with this whole thing. There are just too many issues and inconsistencies, not only with the delivery of the challenge, but with coding guidelines as well.

I will just take the payments from the insurance companies as my "prize" for being the best coder I can be.

Good luck to everyone else.
 
Case #4

I would like to start by saying, today was nice as the answer tutorial worked and thank you for whom ever got that fixed. I will say though, that I agree with the other posts, the note clearly states multiple abscess so the code set for this documentation I beleive, should be 10061. I too would like to know the rational for the code selection, like day two and the diagnosis code selected, I do not feel are correct.

Encoder Pro definition: Report 10060 for incision and drainage of a simple or single abscess. Report 10061 for complex or multiple cysts. Complex or multiple cysts may require surgical closure at a later date.


Also, here is the definition for myofascial pain: Myofascial pain in myofascial pain, pressure on sensitive points in your muscles (trigger points) causes pain in seemingly unrelated parts of your body. This is called referred pain. Myofascial pain syndrome typically occurs after a muscle has been contracted repetitively.

Thank you Maureen
mb2531@comcast.net
 
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I am so glad I come back to this forum to check on the answers ... I am preparing for the CPC exam and my confidence would be totally destroyed if I didn't come here. I also coded 10061, 682.2. I also coded the ER visit, but I guess you're not supposed to do that... not quite sure why. Anyway, thank you, everyone, for all of your input!
 
ncgirl said:
Yes, I agree. I have got 729.1 on Case 2 and 10061 for on case 4 and no -25 modifier required for 99382 (preventive) on case 3 per guidelines.

Would really appreciate if any rationale can be given.

Thanks in advance!
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I agree with all of these, I forgot about the modifier 25 on my previous post, but I did not use a modifier for the preventative visit with immunizations either.
 
Hi Alex:

I am not sure what impression does AAPC as an organization wants to give to others. It is so shameful to see the way the challenge is going ahead. From the original dates displayed being wrong, with the FAQ saying anyone can answer a question within 48 hours when we cannot do that after 24 hours. And after all this, it is such a shame to listen to someone who does not even know how to code showing on the video how to code those reports- the wrong ones on even simple reports.. :( In spite of posting correct answers no points have been credited to my account or my name is not there anywhere on the list. .. Ridiculous.

Thanks and regards,

Annie
 
Case#4 :eek:
I truly do not understand how the case was coded as 10060. The key word is "multiple." I wonder if the person that's presenting the answers is even certified. I'm losing confidence with AAPC by the minute with these answers. One thing I do agree with is that it was only one code. There was not enough information to code the er visit. Although you can pull the location and severity from the HPI and integumentary for ROS, the PFSH, Exam and MDM were all missing. :mad:
 
It is now apparent to me that this was just a big advertisement and trick to get people to pay for AAPC Coder.

I signed up for the trial, was prompted to give credit card information, and did so stupidly. Now I am told that unless I cancel by the end of the month I will be charged. However, in the top corner of the site it says your trail ends in 357 days...?!? Per the email I can cancel at anytime under my account, subscriptions and clicking manage. There is no cancel option, only the option to purchase additional add ons!

I am pretty angry about this. I do not want to be charged. I do not want to go through a hassle to get it cancelled. I thought I was trying this service to see if I like it, and I have determined I do not.
 
ajgibson said:
I am getting a little frustrated :mad:. I know I got the first case correct, but received no point:confused:. I got the second case wrong because of choosing 729.1, like everyone else. Now we can't see the third case's answer because the video won't play in any browser.
Why not just have the answer in the same format as the cases?:confused:
I'm pretty disappointed in this whole thing so far. Not at all how I expected this to be handled. :(
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The answer will never be provided in writing because this is just a huge advertising campaign to get everyone to use AAPC Coder. We have to watch the video so we see how great Coder is and want to use it. We sign up for a trial to use for this challenge and then are tricked into being charged with no clear way to cancel.
 
Hi Coders,

We recognize your concerns regarding the AAPC Coding Challenge, specifically with case #4's solution. As many of you have stated, the answer shown in the video is incorrect. The correct code for case #4 is 10061, not 10060. As a result, the video has been removed. Posted scores are correct. Our team verifying submissions used a text version of the key, which provided the 10061 code. Again, it was only the video that provided the inaccurate code. We apologize for the oversight and for any frustrations you may have had.

We believe that the technical issues have been resolved and additional steps are in place to QA answers. We hope you will continue to participate as the Coding Challenge continues through February 27th. We welcome your feedback on our member forum, where we are working diligently to answer your questions.

We appreciate your patience as we work out some bugs with the Coding Challenge!

Sincerely,

AAPC Coding Challenge Team
 
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alex.mckinley@aapc.com said:
Hi Coders,

We recognize your concerns regarding the AAPC Coding Challenge, specifically with case #4?s solution. As many of you have stated, the answer shown on the video is incorrect. The correct code for case #4 is 10061, not 10060. As a result, the video has been removed and those who answered correctly with 10061 will receive points accordingly. We apologize for the error oversight and for any frustrations you may have had.

We believe that the technical issues have been resolved and additional steps are in place to QA answers. We hope you will continue to participate as the Coding Challenge continues through February 27th. We welcome your feedback on our member forum, where we are working diligently to answer your questions.

We appreciate your patience as we work out some bugs with the Coding Challenge!

Sincerely,

AAPC Coding Challenge Team
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Ok but then does that not change the leader board? Because you awarded the 1st right answer of the day to the one with the first wrong answer! And so on.
 
Hi Debra,

The leaderboard is correct, and the announced winner was correct. Our team members checking submissions are comparing to the text answer key, which was correct. The video was not correct.

I edited the message above to clarify this point.

Thank you for your comment.

Alex
 
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Question #4

okay so how do you determine who was the first person? If I submitted my answer as soon as the question was posted and also entered more than one time how do you pick the person is it a random drawing?
:confused:
 
ncgirl - That is a great suggestion, however, after week one our goal is to simply have the challenge function with the correct answers for consecutive days. With that said, I'm going to find out how reasonable it would be to have this done in the future.

Alex
 
lec121661 - It is definitely not a random drawing. We receive a list of submitted answers. The list is sorted by when the answer was received. Our team then checks for correct answers. The first correct one is the day's winner.
 
Choosing random winners

I would propose that to be fair to everyone, the winner be chosen at random. Some of us work for companies that do not allow us to access your website during working hours so we need to submit our answers in the evening at home and therefore will never be chosen as the daily winner. This also allows those in different time zones to have equal chances of being chosen as a daily winner as well. We all have worked hard to become certified and find a position as a coder, this challenge is a great opportunity to learn more and gain a better understanding in coding over a wide variety of specialties and scenarios. I would hope that in the future, this suggestion can be taken into consideration so we all have an equal chance with your great prizes as well as gaining more experience coding a variety of physician specialty notes. Thanks for listening.
 
I also used 729.1, and would much prefer an answer over a video, and maybe an explanation of why specific answers are incorrect.
 
jmaciulis said:
THANK YOU! A written summary of the answer is very much appreciated.

I definitely got this wrong. I read that 25 was not needed with a well child exam because vaccines are to be expected. I also did not code each individual V code because I had read that V20.2 covered them as well. I guess that was a bad resource that I had.

I had first coded the 90460 and 90461 because I too thought a child that age would be counselled, but I did change at last minute because it was not documented.

I feel as though I am learning some valuable things, but other things seem to be a bit off. But that is the nature of coding, I guess. It can be very subjective.
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I agree with you and coded the same way.
 
I am getting ready for the certification test as well, and thought I knew my stuff. After getting no points through the first 3 questions, I was seriously doubting myself. After reading all if these posts though, I feel that I do know my stuff as I am getting the same answers as all of you. I am ready to rock this test.
 
Case #4

I don't think I'll continue the challenge. I got the correct answer despite the video giving the wrong answer. I don't see my name on the Leaderboard either. Everyone have fun with the challenge!
 
Thoracic spine pain can be of muscular or spinal origin. Within the body of the record, the provider states it is right-sided thoracic paraspinal musculature.

Pain/Thoracic Spine codes to 724.1
Pain/muscle or Pain/musculoskeletal codes to 729.1

The question then becomes which is more specific. Is the location (thoracic) or the fact that it is the muscle more specific?

Both 724.1 and 729.1 will be given credit.

I hope this helps!

Katherine Abel
Director of Curriculum
AAPC

Codingabc123 said:
729.1 was my answer for case #2 due to the word paraspinal in the post-operative diagnosis and the body of the report which, by definition, is areas surrounding the spine which would include musculature. This was specified as a myofascial defined as relating to the fascia surrounding and separating muscle tissue.

There is nothing in the body of the report specifying either a procedure IN the spine or the pain being IN the spine as ICD-9 724.1 clearly indicates.

My opinion remains that 729.1 applies in this case.

I would like to receive an e-mail from the AAPC detailing the reasoning and sources behind 729.1 to clarify the answer given.
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submitted answers

alex.mckinley@aapc.com said:
lec121661 - It is definitely not a random drawing. We receive a list of submitted answers. The list is sorted by when the answer was received. Our team then checks for correct answers. The first correct one is the day's winner.
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okay then I am really confused if its done by the first one that submits the correct answer and we are all on different time zones that affects others? I submitted my answer as soon as the question was posted. and then learned that it was incorrect, then find out that I was correct all the time. I haven't even received one point. and to top it off I submitted my response more than once. I am not even sure if AAPC is getting my responses with the system glitch even though I am getting a confirmation that the answer has been submitted then there is the issue with the 2nd question which the diagnosis was incorrect so I am not sure exactly how they come up with these answers. I am just wondering. :confused:
 
New Case not updating on the website.

I spent 2 hours 12-2 EST Friday refreshing my window to get a chance to code Case #5 before giving up. This is well past the 10-11AM MST window provided. Even right now the timer that is on the Case #6 teaser page says is all zeros. How does one have a fighting chance to be in the top 3 without refreshing their page every minute for hours on end until the next case appears. Frustrating.
 
I couldn't access case #5 on Friday and it still has 0's listed on the timer. So I never got to see it. This is so frustrating!
 
Hi Annie,

You are right. The issues you addressed in your post happened. We continued to face challenges once a challenge was corrected. This forum is not the right place to explore the reasons, however, we're doing our best to make it a better experience. I wish multiple apologies would lessen the frustration, but they don't.

I found an Annie on the latest contest leaderboard update. I don't know if this is you but you can view the name on the site. If this is not you send me a private message with your last name and I'll look into it.

Alex
 
Stephanie,

Your browser may have cached the previous website updates. Try clearing your cache or using a different browser.

Just so you know, the new contest is posted automatically at 10 am MST. No human intervention is involved and I personally check the site once 10 am MST hits to verify the latest case has rolled out.

Alex
 
Hi Everyone,

I'm going to lock down this thread as it now serves multiple purposes and is challenging to manage.

Now that issues have stabilized I'm free to post a new thread daily for each case. A few are up now and I'll be consistent going forth. If a question regarding a case arises, please post it in the thread related to the case.

I apologize any frustrations the challenge may have given you. We're working hard to make it right.

Thank you.

Alex
 
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