Wiki Elimination of “A” Designation: The Apprentice designation is not needed anymore

I so agree, I was not trained in school on how to code clinical notes. I have the AAPC workbook, which I haven't gone through yet because I didn't need to to get my CPC certification. However, I would like to see the schools add some "real" training to the curriculum. I also agree that on-the-job training would be best, but if we can't get hired even with certification without two years of experience, where are we going to get that experience? You say to work in the field for two years before getting the certification. You'd have to change how hospitals want their coders -- everyone in this area that still hires "newbies" wants some experience, and if they hire you without a certification, you get sixth months to get that certification.
 
Most of the coders I have talked to do not even have any coding education much less a certification of any kind. They are being hired as a general employee in a physician's office as a front desk receiptionist and being moved along as they learn the ropes. So, I would suggest that we all try to begin wherever we can get our foot in the door. The thing is they are not being paid what a CPC should be paid either. So, we may even have to accept a lesser salary as well.

Another issue with that may be the office is not being reimbursed as they should be, but I suppose you get what you pay for.

Good Luck to everyone and keep searching.:)
 
Due to the mandate of medical records becoming digitized by 2014 and the increased usage of automated medical coding software, it seems the administrative healthcare employment demand might soon be in RHIA and RHIT? This link is from the Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics. This mentions coding, but there seems to be heavier emphasis on RHIT. I only pasted parts of what the web page says.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos103.htm

Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2010-11 Edition

Medical Records and Health Information Technicians

Significant Points
Employment is expected to grow much faster than the average.
Job prospects should be very good, particularly for technicians with strong computer software skills.
Entrants usually have an associate degree.
This is one of the few health-related occupations in which there is no direct hands-on patient care.

Training, Other Qualifications, and Advancement
Entry-level medical records and health information technicians usually have an associate degree. Many employers favor technicians who have a Registered Health Information Technicians (RHIT) credential.

Education and training. Medical records and health information technicians generally have an associate degree. Typical coursework in health information technology includes medical terminology, anatomy and physiology, health data requirements and standards, clinical classification and coding systems, data analysis, healthcare reimbursement methods, database security and management, and quality improvement methods. Applicants can improve their chances of admission into a postsecondary program by taking biology, math, chemistry, health, and computer science courses in high school.

Certification and other qualifications
Most employers prefer to hire credentialed medical record and health information technicians. A number of organizations offer credentials typically based on passing a credentialing exam. Most credentialing programs require regular recertification and continuing education to maintain the credential. Many coding credentials require an amount of time in coding experience in the work setting.

The American Health Information Management Association (AHIMA) offers credentialing as a Registered Health Information Technicians (RHIT). To obtain the RHIT credential, an individual must graduate from a 2-year associate degree program accredited by the Commission on Accreditation for Health Informatics and Information Management Education (CAHIIM) and pass an AHIMA-administered written examination. In 2008, there were more than 200 CAHIIM-accredited health information technology colleges and universities programs.

The American Academy of Professional Coders (AAPC) offers coding credentials. The Board of Medical Specialty Coding (BMSC) and Professional Association of Health care Coding Specialists (PAHCS) both offer credentialing in specialty coding. The National Cancer Registrars Association (NCRA) offers a credential as a Certified Tumor Registrar (CTR). To learn more about the credentials available and their specific requirements, contact the credentialing organization.

Health information technicians and coders should possess good oral and written communication skills as they often serve as liaisons between healthcare facilities, insurance companies, and other establishments. Candidates proficient with computer software and technology will be appealing to employers as healthcare facilities continue to adopt electronic health records. Medical records and health information technicians should enjoy learning, as continuing education is important in the occupation.

Job Outlook
Employment is expected to grow much faster than the average. Job prospects should be very good; technicians with a strong understanding of technology and computer software will be in particularly high demand.

Employment change
Employment of medical records and health information technicians is expected to increase by 20 percent, much faster than the average for all occupations through 2018. Employment growth will result from the increase in the number of medical tests, treatments, and procedures that will be performed. As the population continues to age, the occurrence of health-related problems will increase. Cancer registrars should experience job growth as the incidence of cancer increases from an aging population.

In addition, with the increasing use of electronic health records, more technicians will be needed to complete the new responsibilities associated with electronic data management.

Job prospects. Job prospects should be very good. In addition to job growth, numerous openings will result from the need to replace medical record and health information technicians who retire or leave the occupation permanently.
 
All of the demand issues depend on the following:
* Setting
* Desired position
* Geographic location
* Specialty
* Organizational missions/initiatives

Please keep in mind that RHITs must now compete with folks who've completed the HITECH trainings related to electronic record training, process improvement and clinical leadership. Although I do not have reports on how well employers are accepting that training or seeking those candidates, it is clear that employers are sending in-house employees to be trained and educated in this area.

All along I have suggested for Coders in small to medium sized practices to seek some of this HITECH training so they can grow into leadership positions for transition. Additionally, all the training in implementation and training for EHR does not replace the knowledge or skill base of a certified coder, especially when we look at adopting new practice management tools and revenue cycle processes.
 
Cpc-a

I also live in the Wilimington, NC area and attend AAPC chapter meetings on a regular basis. I am in agreement with everything you are saying. The CPC exam was absolutely the hardest test that I have ever taken, and I was extremely relived when I learned that I had passed. However, the euphoria has now worn off, and the reality of the situation has set in. And it is not a pretty picture.

When I attend the chapter meetings, I see a room full of well-intentioned, frustrated and unemployed people at a loss as to what they should do. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of people who have already paid a substantial amount of money for education, joining AAPC and taking the CPC exam are now going to dole out more funds to take yet another ardous exam as they feel like they have no choice if they hope to become gainfully employeed only to be still left in the catch 22 position of no experience, no job.

I was really excited about this aspect of the medical profession, and I was looking forward to being a part of something that offered career opportunities as well as professional comradery. In retrospect, perhaps these expectations were too high, and I know that the employment opportunities in this area are not that great. I have not given up all hope, but I am definetly brainstorming to try and come up with ideas that I can propose at the next chapter meeting. Thanks to all who have responded. It has been uplifting to realize that we are not in this quandry alone.


I have to agree with you. I have worked in the medical field in various capacities for the last 20+ years. I was offered an opportunity to participate in a class that was given to several employees in a local billing office by a certified instructor. Although not a formal class, I participated for over a half a year, attended all but one of the weekly classes and did all of the required work. I am proud to say that I passed the CPC exam on my first try, and, I was the only one of eight students who passed on the first try. The test was grueling, both mentally and physically.
I now feel that my efforts may have been wasted since my passing that test will basically mean nothing unless I take and pass the new test. I don't feel it's fair that I will have to sit for another 5 1/2 hour exam, which is what I will be required to do given the nature of job openings for coders in my town. Most practices here don't even hire certified coders. The few that do, require 5 years experience. Extern programs are all but non-existent. The ones I checked on require that an extern work during the day. Unfortunately, I have to work at my full-time job in order to pay my bills so this would be impossible. In addition, even if I pass the add-on exam, it will still not give me the coding 'experience' that is required to get a job. I don't see how this is helping apprentices at all. It appears to me that only the AAPC stands to gain since apprenticies will be required to pay additional money to take another exam.
While I'm at it, I will also say that I know of serveral 'certified' coders who do not have the required experience, but still their employers were willing to write letters for them so they didn't have to have the "A". If this "A" is so important that maybe ALL coders need to take both exams so that it will be a level playing field.
I will carefully consider what to do since this will now become an issue for me and I'm sure for so many others. I will also make sure to bring this up at my local chapter meeting, which I attend faithfully.
Thanks so much for making my day!
 
I also live in the Wilimington, NC area and attend AAPC chapter meetings on a regular basis. I am in agreement with everything you are saying. The CPC exam was absolutely the hardest test that I have ever taken, and I was extremely relived when I learned that I had passed. However, the euphoria has now worn off, and the reality of the situation has set in. And it is not a pretty picture.

When I attend the chapter meetings, I see a room full of well-intentioned, frustrated and unemployed people at a loss as to what they should do. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of people who have already paid a substantial amount of money for education, joining AAPC and taking the CPC exam are now going to dole out more funds to take yet another ardous exam as they feel like they have no choice if they hope to become gainfully employeed only to be still left in the catch 22 position of no experience, no job.

I was really excited about this aspect of the medical profession, and I was looking forward to being a part of something that offered career opportunities as well as professional comradery. In retrospect, perhaps these expectations were too high, and I know that the employment opportunities in this area are not that great. I have not given up all hope, but I am definetly brainstorming to try and come up with ideas that I can propose at the next chapter meeting. Thanks to all who have responded. It has been uplifting to realize that we are not in this quandry alone.
 
A black belt is a white belt that never gave up

I worked hard to pass the CPC exam. I passed it the first time while my friends who already had medical jobs didn't even pass it on the second time and just gave up. They still had a job and all I have is that stupid A. I don't have any on the job training and have tried the project xternship program and have gotten nowhere. I also want to know from all the hiring managers how I am supposed to get a job, any medical job coding or not, if no one will give me a chance. When I talked to the AAPC about doing the exam to get my A off, they said that I could but truthfully employers don't look at that as field work it is still just book work!

I'm not a manager of any kind. I'm just a CPC-A like yourself. Just like you, I couldn't find a job in billing or coding and for the same reason you can't. I graduated with a 4.0 GPA in billing and coding. I even got my CPC-A a few weeks after finishing school the first time up with an 88%. Even with all that, I couldn't get a job in billing and coding because of my severe lack of practical experience.

So I took a job in reception as a way to break into billing and coding. I think this is the only way most of us will be able to get into billing and coding. I've got a few friends that were able to get right into billing and coding, but that's because one was lucky enough to extern for a billing company looking for some new employees. She was able to get a job for some of our other friends.

I think the thing really is that most places want us to "grow" into billing and coding. What we are taught in school really is just the basics of billing and coding. I'm learning so much more than I did in school as a receptionist. There are so many goofy rules with the different insurance companies, it gives me a headache just thinking about them.

I will also say that if you are given an interview... make sure to tell them that you are a CPC-A and that you want to eventually get into billing and coding after having some real experience in whatever position they are interviewing you for. I think this is what put me over the edge and into my job.

At any rate.... I wish you the best of luck if you want to continue your search for a billing/coding job.
 
Cpc-a

This was my comment to aapc.com/cpc-acomment...
I have a CPC-A.
I agree that the A should be eliminated. The resume speaks for itself.
We should not be required to take a clinical exam of coding 20 operative/office notes, because there was not enough emphasis at my Community College to do this (it was not part of the curriculum). So therefore we should be grandfathered in. Moving forward there is a great need to communicate better with the College's. There should be a free pre-req. class explaining all that is required to obtain your CPC credential. 1. A person should already have work experience (unless see below my #4 comment if that was enacted - then you would not need the emphasis on already having work experience). 2. The complete cost and requirements (including joining AAPC to see your results). 3. I have heard good things about the Virtual Experience and perhaps AAPC could incorporate that with the Community College curriculum. That way you would be trained better for the clinical exam. 4. There are presently government grants available for people to start business's that can employee lots of people. With 30,000 CPC-A's out there trying to find work this would be a great area to obtain that grant. Schools, AAPC, Physicians and Hospitals need to work together to have a apprentice program that works to help us CPC-A's learn and accomplish the real world work of coding. (A little bit like the program they have for a dentist - where people can go have dental work done by the medical school students). The schools could set up special secure classrooms where CPC-A's can do real practical work (that a courier has brought in) like a clearinghouse. This would be a win-win situation. Work is done and students learn and get practical experience. Thank you for allowing my comments. Also, perhaps you might consider a "Chapter Meeting" round table discussion on this issue.
 
I am really upset about the fact that I probably will never have the -A removed from my CPC. I worked hard to pass the exam after taking an online course with UMA, an excellent school. In addition, I have years of medical work experience, although not in coding. I have taken a job working with Medicaid. However, I will not be able to uitlize my coding skills. It is very unfortunate that obtaining just one more year of working with codes is so hard to come by. I am in my 50's and I believe the job I have now is where I will stay and the company will be fortunate to have me. The ones that will be unfortunate are the ones that did not give me the chance to obtain that one year of working with medical codes. And this is America?
 
I have mixed feelings about this change. On the one hand, I know that for those newly certified coders with no previous medical experience the A is like a scarlet letter, as pamps76 stated, and it puts potential employers in a frame of mind to expect the worst. On the other hand, I have tutored several people who failed the exam only to discover that they didn't have much beyond the most basic knowledge when they finally did pass. Those people were smart and worked hard, they just hadn't had enough exposure. There are so many things you won't learn until you are "in the field", things like revenue codes and condition codes and all of the other items that cross over from coding to billing. But NO ONE is going to know it all. So, I think the certification either has to be reworked, as ollielooya (love it!) suggested, or we have to just accept that the CPC is entry level and then experience adds to your "hire-ability".

As for me, I had been doing specialty coding while working clinically and finally got my CPC because I kept running into conflicts with the hospital's coders that I couldn't resolve, and I needed to know how they thought and why our communication left us both frustrated. The credential helped them to see me as someone who might know what I was doing, and I learned how to show them my side of the story in language they could relate to. I was luckier than w_burns in that my boss and our doctor's practice manager, a CPC herself, wrote my letters so I never had to wear the dreaded "A". But even after 8 years of doing the specialty coding and 20+ years of clinical background I am still learning new things so in some ways I will always be an apprentice.
 
KMadding

They are NOT discontinuing the Virtual Experience . I just finshed beta testing. The Virtual Experience can be done in your home at your own pace. 800 questions is a lot but I think the 20 being proposed in the Elimination of the A Designation is too few. Having done the beta for Virtual passing 20 qestions at 90% is going to be almost impossible. I think they should compromise between 20 and 800 questions and lower the price of Virtual and keep it.
Has everyone forgotten about the testing we are going to have to do to KEEP certification after ICD-10 Its not going to do you an good to get the "A" removed in 2012 if you loose the entire cerification a few years later now is it.
 
I think that we need to get rid of the "A" all together. I hear of so many people out there coding who aren't CPC's and yet they were able to get into an office because they knew somone who was willing to give them a job and train them on the job. Then you have the people who took the time to learn coding, take and pass the grueling test and still can't get a job because they have that A after the CPC.
 
Virtual Experience.

They are NOT discontinuing the Virtual Experience . I just finshed beta testing. The Virtual Experience can be done in your home at your own pace. 800 questions is a lot but I think the 20 being proposed in the Elimination of the A Designation is too few. Having done the beta for Virtual passing 20 qestions at 90% is going to be almost impossible. I think they should compromise between 20 and 800 questions and lower the price of Virtual and keep it.
Has everyone forgotten about the testing we are going to have to do to KEEP certification after ICD-10 Its not going to do you an good to get the "A" removed in 2012 if you loose the entire cerification a few years later now is it.

Was the beta testing done by AAPC, and when and where can you find the Virtual Experience in order to sign up for it?
I agree with you 100% and sent my response to AAPC. I so hope that we are able to do the Virtual Experience as I feel it is a much better indication of a coder's abilities than a 20 question exam. If I can code 800 notes at 90% accuracy on my own, that shows I already know something about what it takes and can learn what is necessary to be sucessful to insure that claims are coded and billed correctly for whatever facility I am employed. :)
 
They are NOT discontinuing the Virtual Experience . I just finshed beta testing. The Virtual Experience can be done in your home at your own pace. 800 questions is a lot but I think the 20 being proposed in the Elimination of the A Designation is too few. Having done the beta for Virtual passing 20 qestions at 90% is going to be almost impossible. I think they should compromise between 20 and 800 questions and lower the price of Virtual and keep it.
Has everyone forgotten about the testing we are going to have to do to KEEP certification after ICD-10 Its not going to do you an good to get the "A" removed in 2012 if you loose the entire cerification a few years later now is it.

karnmadding,

I just wanted get your thoughts on the beta testing. I, was also a beta tester for the Virtual Experience. What, if anything, did you find difficult about the notes? And what did you like about what was changed? How did you find out that the AAPC is keeping the program?? I just sent an e-mail out this morning, to my contact at the AAPC to inquire about the progress of the program. What have you heard about what they are planning to do?

Also, I agree with you that 20 notes for the Elimination of the A Designation is too few as well, and passing with a 90%, with so few is going to be almost impossible. Also, the issue that seems to be the major problem with aquiring a job, is not having the experience. That is why I thought the idea of having an apprentice program was a good opportunity to get the much needed experience that is required. However, I am not sure how to get a potential employer to recognize this as real experience...

I actually had about 700 of the notes done when the web site went down, and I'm sure you will agree, this is alot of work. I think anyone who goes through this program deserves to be recognized for their hard work. I also think this is a great way to prove they are willing to work hard to get the "A" removed, and to show they are serious about working in the field. I just felt that the AAPC should have had some way of actually providing a mentor to aid in the process, as if this was an internship. someone to go to for advice...
 
Here is the problem that I see with this change; for those of us who went to school, passed the test and have been looking for a job-sometimes for YEARS-to have to pay to take another test, buy coding books because if you're not working you don't have up to date books...it's just frustrating! I have tried everything I can think of to break into this field and can't get any experience, I don't think I can afford to keep going on with it.
 
Many moons ago when i took my exam you were required to have at least two years of experience (and a letter stating such fromyour employer). Why the AAPC moved away from that I don't know. Pam is right the AAPC can't leave alll those CPC-A's hanging out to dry, but in order for the credentials to be taken seriously (and for years they weren't) there has to be some sort of segue. I like the idea of actually coding from the notes rather than a multiple choice test. As difficult as people feel the test is, it doesn't begin to compare with abstracting information from a patient record where not everything is neatly in place for you.

As for other fields requiring apprentices, physican are not allowed to hang up a shingle once they complete medical school, they are required to go through both an internship and residency. Plumbers, electricians and carpenters all have apprenticeships. And nurses are required to go through clinical rotations PRIOR to graduation.

Years ago before managed care, HIPAA, the ACA, CERTS, RACs and ZPICs it was easy to walk into a medical office and do any job. Now all that has changed and from my experience, most of the coding courses do not adequately prepare new coders for the "real world". People who have other experience in the medical field are more prepared, but most new coders have never set foot in a medical office except as a patient. One thing the AAPC has accomplished with the apprentice designation is to over saturate the field with inexperienced coders. What is the answer? I'm not sure, but I agree with Pam, I think the AAPC is heading in the right direction.
I have a son who is now an E-1 Electrician and while yes had to do a specified number of hours for an apprenticeship it is a PAID apprenticeship with a company who is willing to hire apprentices and they are in our state subsidized for this. It is fine to designate one as an apprentice if once you have studied very diligently and passed the exam there is some way to GAIN that experience. I have years of experience in a different field, I also have a certificate as a Medical Secretary I obtained years ago, I am now a CPC-A and even if I were to take the exam you are talking about I don't think anyone would hire me as I have no experience.

The courses and program that I have taken was through my local College as an HIMT Coding Specialist. It was my choice to go on, become a member of AAPC and sit for the credentialing exam. The courses entailed everything you need to know from Medical Terminology to Anatomy and Physiology, including Health information Management courses, the legalities of HIPAA and medical documentation and more. It was very intensive and I am proud to say I graduated from the program with a GPA of 3.86. You would think with two certificates in the Medical Field, some experience in Medical Offices and years of experience with computers, litigation support and other areas someone would want to hire me on an entry level basis. It is not happening and I find it very discouraging. Maybe what is needed is to start within some of these facilities a real apprenticeship program where you can work through your apprenticeship and be paid reasonably for the skills that you have.

What I really find aggravating is the fact that most of the ads ask for only a High School education with no formal training but a CPC with 2 or more years of experience. While it is nice to volunteer to work somewhere to gain experience I don't think anyone who has gone to school for this or has retrained to be in another profession can afford to volunteer for two years?
 
You've really hit the nail on the head: our industry does not require certification or licensure. Electricians are normally required to be licensed in their states.

If we (as an industry) could compel adoption of mandatory certification (and probably an associated licensure fee with repsective states), then the keys to the kingdom are there for the graduates and those seeking employment.

Every certified coder I know would happily support efforts at more closely regulating workers in our end of the industry. It's remarkable to note that our part of the health care field is more heavily regulated than many others, yet our practitioners are not required to demonstrate competence through professional affiliation and credentialing. The hiring managers certainly lean that way in larger organizations, but it's an open field for the rest...

Just some thoughts for AAPC, readers here and credentialed coders who need their day in the sun.
 
I also agree with Pam, I believe the AAPC is headed in a great direction. I have worked in this field for 10 years in billing, I started out as a receptionist that was required to do charge entry. I later went to a billing company as data entry rep and learned my way up through the ladder to coding. I took the exam and now I am a CPC, I have been coding under my boss for 4 years and I had a letter stating my abilities. I think that these "career schools" need to stop lying to people that they are going to come out here in the real world and make $25/hr as a CPC and then, they take the certification exam and find out they are a CPC-A and can't even get a job. I like the idea of doing away with the "A" and making people meet the work expreience requirement OR test their true knowledge of coding.
 
The real issue here for the employers I think is the fact that most of them (especially the smaller offices) do not hire people just to code. The "coder" they hire also has to be able to file the insurance, follow up, work the denials, work collections.....the list is endless and none of this is covered by the CPC exam.
I agree that there should be a multiple choice section but I think to really give the certification true marketable value insurance issues should also be addressed. I know that would be a daunting prospect but in my opinion employers would have more confidence in hiring a CPC-A with no experience if they felt that the training a CPC goes through addressed the issues that affect their bottom line.
As we go forward in this industry it is going to be more important than ever for claims to be filed cleanly (which involves a knowledge of LCDs/NCDs, Medicare guidelines, modifier usage, global packages, what constitutes a chargeable visit during the global period, ICD 9 guidelines, CPT guidelines, etc) and the RAs will need to be worked properly (which involves knowledge of redetermination filing, appeals filing, what you can and can not bill the patient for, the various rules of the various insurance companies, etc). Currently the CPC does not prepare coders for the "real" world that they are trying to step into and employers know it. Many of the smaller offices do not have the funds or time to train a person in all of the areas that the CPC lacks and so they will hire someone with no certification who has the experience they need to just jump right in and get the cash flowing.
How could this be addressed in the context of the CPC? I do not honestly know. Adding this to the exam would probably increase the cost to take the exam and the cost of creating it but I really do think that it would be a win-win for all concerned.
 
Perhaps the Advisory Board needs to look at the target markets for the CPC credential. In most organizations that I've worked with, the assignments were generally not dumped on a single worker (though I recognize from my contact with health care offices, that is the practice at many).

Your suggestions that a CPC does not prepare folks to be coders is not entirely correct. However, the gaps between what needs done in a small physician practice is entirely different than what is accomplished by a CPC working in a corporate environment, where some of that suggested material will be unnecessary.
 
Ok, for all of you new coders who believed the hype that you can make over $40,000/yr AND/OR work from home. YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK!!! If you check out the AAPC salary survey from 2010 which is when they broke it down by years of experience you'll see that most people with one year were making $16.61/hr, coders didn't get to over $20 until they had 10 years of experience ($21.96). So....if you who don't have any experience are not willing to accept jobs that are paying "$14-$20"/hr then you have no reason to complain. If you actually read the salary survey report you'll find that the people making the most money are usually self employed, are consultants or are in managment positions.

Every post from experienced coders have adivsed the newbies to take any job they can get. Yes jobs are hard to come by and if you take the front desk position you're NOT going to make $20/hr but you will be getting experience in the medical field and if you prove that you want to learn most employers will give you a chance. However, if you go into an interview expecting that because you went to school and passed a multiple choice test they're going to look at you like you're the answer to they're prayers you are sadly mistaken. Everyone has to start somewhere and most people are NOT going to start at the top. So lower your expectations and get some experience.

Wow! Who said they weren't willing to take whatever job they can get? Who said they expect to make $40k a year? That's not what I've been reading here. I've been reading that people are afraid - afraid that they won't find a job that will give them the experience they need in the time-frame that the AAPC is proposing. I hear fear. And not a lot of empathy from many CPC's posting here.

One of the smartest posts I've read here is from ljohnson980, at 1-5-2012 11:54AM. It's worth reading if you haven't. She holds several CPC certifications.

"If I am lucky enough to gain employment, remember NO one wants to hire a CPC-Apprentice I will probably spend the year entering the same five codes listed on the superbill. My “A” is removed but I am less of a coder at the end of that year than when I passed the CPC exam."

How many CPC's code the same codes day in and day out? How many of them were given full CPC certification when they completed the test, just because they were able to get the requisite letters from their employeers validating their experience, when, in fact, they don't do much coding at all? The same could be said for the CPC's who were required to have those letters before they could sit for the test.

From what I understand, even the externships are questionable. One person can code for eight hours a day for three months and another for 4 hours a day for three months and they both get credit for three months of coding experience. It's whatever the employer chooses to do.

Maybe it's just time to level the playing field.

Also from ljohnson980, at 1-5-2012 11:54AM (someone who is obviously not threatened by the idea of giving CPC-A's their full certification):

"I would drop the A designation right away for anyone who has passed the CPC exam and move to a graduated certification method."

THAT sounds like the best idea I've heard from anyone!
 
Entirely true kevbshields. I live in a small mostly rural area and the physician practices here are small. Many tend to hire experience over certification.
I was very lucky in that the office I work for wanted a certified coder and did not mind hiring someone with no real world experience. The previous coder was not certified (which is why the office was set on hiring certified) and it showed in the mounds of denials that was next to the mountains of uncoded charts in the office I was shown to. I was completely unprepared for dealing with the insurance world and could not understand some of the denials. I know I would have greatly appreciated a crash course in things like LCDs/NCDs, CCI Edits, Medicare guidelines, and the like.
I think it would add more prestige to the AAPC and the CPC itself if some of those things were added to the course and test. Newly "minted" CPCs would be a little more marketable than they are now and even better prepared than they currently are. But of course that is just my opinion :D
 
They are NOT discontinuing the Virtual Experience . I just finshed beta testing. The Virtual Experience can be done in your home at your own pace. 800 questions is a lot but I think the 20 being proposed in the Elimination of the A Designation is too few. Having done the beta for Virtual passing 20 qestions at 90% is going to be almost impossible. I think they should compromise between 20 and 800 questions and lower the price of Virtual and keep it.
Has everyone forgotten about the testing we are going to have to do to KEEP certification after ICD-10 Its not going to do you an good to get the "A" removed in 2012 if you loose the entire cerification a few years later now is it.

I spoke with the AAPC about the Virtual Experience and was told that they were discontinuing it indefinitely, (it's no longer on the website) because there were too many problems with it.

Also, I don't know how they could possibly add more than 20 notes to the exam they are proposing. They will be allowing the same amount of time as they do for the CPC exam - five hours and 40 (?) minutes. Can't imagine many people being willing to sit for an exam that's more than six hours long.
 
Upset with the removal of A proposal from the AAP. One test like the CPC exam enough

None of this really makes ANY sense to me. I graduated from an AAPC- approved 1 yr. rigorous coding school 1 yr. ago. At the same time, I was/am pursuing an A.S. degree in Health Information Technology (will graduate in May and then take the RHIT exam). I passed the AAPC certification exam as a CPC-A. I have been very diligent trying to get any experience to get rid of the "A" on the end. I have tried to participate in the Apprentice program that AAPC offers, with the closest office being 45 minutes away from me and they had nothing available for me. My question to ALL seasoned coders, hiring managers, etc.. is how do we gain experience (and therefore get rid of the "A" on our credential) if no one is willing to hire non-experienced coders??? You can't get experience if you don't have any experience!!! It is highly FRUSTRATING!!!!! Passing the CPC exam was grueling in and of its self only to be "awarded" with a credential that means nothing...and even less than nothing if you have the scarlet "A' attached. Woopee, now I get to pay more money, and take yet another test to get rid of the "A".....and guess what, still no experience, so still NO JOB!!!!!

I am highly-motivated and generally possess a positive attitude, but this whole thing really rubs me the wrong way!!! Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Happy New Year!!
:confused::mad::(

I agree!
One exam like the CPC exam is more than enough!!!
We need a job to get experience!
 
Removal of A

I think the AAPC needs the leave things the way they were before this proposal.

Passing the CPC exam is more than ENOUGH!!!

I do NOT want to take another test and pay for another test!!
 
Bravo!

Although the CPC exam is challenging, it's not an absolute indicator of coding competency, and elevating the difficulty of the CPC examination will only improve the integrity of the certification. The apprentice certification, in my mind, was well-intentioned, but generated a huge glut of inexperienced (and unemployed) would-be coders, regardless of their abilities and willingness to work. I'm glad that the AAPC has recognized this, and is moving towards re-recognizing that we are setting a higher standard.

I'll never forget the words of one of my staff members, who was struggling early on to grasp the coding concepts in my department. He said, "I passed the CPC examination, but I had no idea that it would mean that I wouldn't just be able to sit down and do this work. There's a h$ll of a lot more to this coding stuff than just passing an exam".

Pam, you're assuming that everyone who took the CPC exam, before the AAPC added the apprentice designation somehow had more knowledge and experience. How can that be true? Some, to be sure, but, certainly, not all. The only requirement before was experience, but that could have meant sitting in a job coding the same codes day in and day out. And if you've read any of the comments here, you'd know that many people who have lots of experience coding have failed the exam!!!!!!

Also, you seem to be under the impression that the test for CPC-A's is somehow different from the test for CPC's. Well, it's not. We all took the same test.

Absolutely "elevate the difficulty of the CPC exam" and make everyone re-test. That would be leveling the playing field. And you'd certainly weed-out the "huge glut of inexperienced (and unemployed) would-be coders."
 
Although I am an apprentice, I am well aware of the fact that the CPC exam is multiple choice, and in the real world there are no multiple choices. A coder DOES need to be able to read a note and pull the appropriate codes for the procedures and/or diagnoses, and that truely IS a good measure of the ability the coder has. That is why I strongly suggest that the AAPC really take a look at continuing to offer the Apprentice Program, wether it be an online or on site program, I feel that is a great way to get the "new" coders the experience and/or education that is needed in order to be a successful coder. Since there are not many providers that have the time, or the finances to train "on the job", it seems to me that someone appointed by the AAPC should lead an apprentice program (like the online program), to work with the new coders, and mentor them on the issues in a real world situation. I would rather pay for an apprentice program that's going to give me the "real world" information needed to be a certified coder, than pay for yet another test that is timed, and does NOT offer any feedback on why a code would NOT be correct, and WOULD get denied in an actual coding setting.

I am speaking from actually having attempted the on-line prgram. Although it had some bugs that needed worked out, I feel it was quite challenging and offered a very real picture of what it is truely like to be in a coding position. The program consisted of 800 doctor's notes, from EVERY specialty. It is alot of hard work, but I felt that it really showed how the real world looks and what is expected of the coder. I REALLY hope that the program will become available again soon, with the bugs worked out, because I think the program, along with a mentor to guide the coder, will make the "new" coder much more successful in understanding the field. I also feel that it will better prepare them for the challenges they will face, and how to do research in order to figure out what the proper codes may be.

One more thing about the CPC test....It is a very hard test and I don't think the fact that it IS extremely challenging should be dissmissed. But I do feel that there should be some actual, fill-in-the-blank notes included in the future. But the amount of time to complete it may need to be increased...just a thought.

What nobody seems to be addressing is the fact that the majority of coders out there do not code from EVERY specialty. My guess is that if you had every CPC (not CPC-A) have to code those 800 notes, they wouldn't succeed with the accuracy the AAPC requires. It's very unfair to expect CPC-A's to be able to do that.

I inquired about it because I felt I'd gain valuable experience. And certainly more experience than many CPC's.
 
Removal of A

If someone passes the bar exam that's it they are a lawyer. Yes they have to participate in continuing education but as long as they do that they are still a lawyer. If someone has passed the CPC exam then they should be considered a medical coder and as long as they fulfill their required continuing education obligations they should always be considered a qualified medical coder. Nobody has to hire them but their certification should not be taken away. As far as the A designation is concerned it should just be dropped. If the AAPC wants to change the test that is fine but anyone who has already passed it should not be required to do anything more at this point other than do their necessary CU units.
As far as finding work goes some people will get lucky and find a good jobs as coders while others will struggle. Those struggling should just try and get any job in the medical field and hope for the best. There are too many CPC-A's (and CPC's for that matter) for the economy to accommodate. What can be done about this? Really nothing except wait for the economy to improve and let market forces work to bring supply and demand back into equilibrium. Some many never find work as coders but hopefully their education/knowledge/certification will enable them to at least find some sort of employment in the medical field.
 
I think it is just making it harder for people to be certified or experienced...

We all took the multiple choice test. I don't believe that suddenly having a NON multiple choice test is going to change anything. Having an entry level job that has office based coding would be experience enough to remove the stigma of the A. Hopefully that will happen for me, since I am going for a lab billing/coding job right now.

I don't feel that those of us with the A should be just forgotten about, because the AAPC wants to make a change. The 20 question exam wouldn't do much good either.

Just my input. ;)
 
I spoke with the AAPC about the Virtual Experience and was told that they were discontinuing it indefinitely, (it's no longer on the website) because there were too many problems with it.

Also, I don't know how they could possibly add more than 20 notes to the exam they are proposing. They will be allowing the same amount of time as they do for the CPC exam - five hours and 40 (?) minutes. Can't imagine many people being willing to sit for an exam that's more than six hours long.

Okay, the 'Virtual Experience 800 Note' was for betatesting last year, and now AAPC has currently put in on hold because they realize there are too many problems with it.

So...what does that mean for all those who signed up for it and coded the notes, whether they completed them or not before it was shut down? Is all the hard work and effort and many hours they put into this beta program going to even be recognized (at least as partial experience) by the AAPC, or are they just going to get a refund and nothing else?:confused:
 
Pam, you're assuming that everyone who took the CPC exam, before the AAPC added the apprentice designation somehow had more knowledge and experience. How can that be true? Some, to be sure, but, certainly, not all. The only requirement before was experience, but that could have meant sitting in a job coding the same codes day in and day out. And if you've read any of the comments here, you'd know that many people who have lots of experience coding have failed the exam!!!!!!

Also, you seem to be under the impression that the test for CPC-A's is somehow different from the test for CPC's. Well, it's not. We all took the same test.

Absolutely "elevate the difficulty of the CPC exam" and make everyone re-test. That would be leveling the playing field. And you'd certainly weed-out the "huge glut of inexperienced (and unemployed) would-be coders."

Having read some of Pam's other posts, I know that she does not think the tests are different, everyone knows they're the same. What I have a problem with is people who say they had a 3.5 to 4.0 gpa in their classes but barely manage to squeak by with a 70% on the exam. This is after the AAPC made it easier to pass by making it an overall score and not requiring a 70% on EACH of the 3 sections. I'd be pretty upset with my son and his teachers if he was bringing home A's all year and then only got a 70 on his final exams. Learning should equate into knowledge about your chosen subject.

I don't think CPC-A's should lose their credentials, they did work for them. But going forward the AAPC definitely has to elevate the standards. As someone suggested, maybe CPCs should be licensed just like plumbers or electricians. Maybe all states need to require either AAPC or AHIMA credentials for anyone who works with records. There are no easy answers, but ironically (someone posted that once you pass the bar exam you are a lawyer in comparison to CPC-As), I read in my local paper today that newly graduated law student who've passed the bar exam can't find jobs. Guess this isn't just a coder problem after all.
 
Elimination of "A"

Unfortunately, I just read this post too late. However, to me the designation of an "A" to our CPC Certification is ridiculous. I have 20+ years in the medical field and passed the exam in December with a score of 82% and I finished the exam an hour earlier. I already had one year dropped off because of my many years of proven experience. Unfortunately, I was laid off at the beginning of the year but I cannot apply for a position as a CPC-A because employers think I am not qualified even though I have been coding and since I was laid off, my previous employer cannot attest to the fact that I was coding for the company. So, now I am stuck with an "A" classification I do not deserve and it is very discouraging. I then have asked myself, "Why become certified, if I will not be recognized as a CPC?" Employers are NOT hiring CPC's unless they have 3 to 5 years of coding experience. What really upsets me is that having to take a Clinical Exam and still have to pay. Those of us that worked so hard to become certified should not have to pay for the so called Clinical Exam. I am more than willing to take such exam but would rather wait until a decision is made by the AAPC. The CPC exam in itself was really nerve racking and it covered all the necessary coding questions. Since, I was not able to respond to the cpc-acomment link in the article, I would appreciate it if someone would advise their final decision. I most certainly need to have the "A" dropped just like most of us who took the exam to better qualify ourselves in the medical/healthcare field this is why we need to keep up with the CEU's to demonstrate our knowledge. What more do they want?
 
What nobody seems to be addressing is the fact that the majority of coders out there do not code from EVERY specialty. My guess is that if you had every CPC (not CPC-A) have to code those 800 notes, they wouldn't succeed with the accuracy the AAPC requires. It's very unfair to expect CPC-A's to be able to do that.

I inquired about it because I felt I'd gain valuable experience. And certainly more experience than many CPC's.

ghpkmp,

Maybe in order for this program to be valuable to the "new" coder looking for the experience, there shouldn't be a requirement to pass the Apprentice Virtual Program with a grade. Maybe it should just be what an apprenticeship is designed for, Experience, something to add to the resume to prove that they are willing to learn whatever specialty they may be presented with. The way I understand it, anyone who does an apprentice program, in other professions, usually does it with little, or no pay at all for this time of learning. All I am proposing is that the AAPC consider continuing on with the the program, (with some of the changes that need to be done). The coder has to pay for it, not get paid to do it, and if that is something they want to per sue to further educate themselves, and something to put on a resume, it should be available to them. This program should not be a basis for eliminating a "status" by how well they score, but a certificate of completion to show their desire to grow, and how serious they are about working in the field. I still believe it gives the coder a great, all-around, view of what they may expect in the "real world", and the types of notes they may encounter. And I feel it is alot of work, and deserves some kind of recognition-but it shouldn't be a requirement to eliminate the "A" status; maybe an option if the coder chooses to add to thier education.

If a person passes the CPC exam, give them the CPC, minus the"A", status as a credential to build on. Then offer more specialized credentials, CPC-"x", for whichever specialty they wish to per sue, as well as offer them the Apprentice program, to further expand their education and possibly help them pick the specialty they might feel they are most interested in. I agree, most coders are not going to use every specialty, and I thought that was the idea behind having the CPC-P, CPC-H, and the various other specialty certifications. I think a potential employer can decide for themselves, based on the resume, if the coder is a fit for their company, and if they think the coder is someone they feel they can, or want, to train.

After reading many of these posts, and posting some of my own opinions, I am now seeing the whole picture this issue has presented. I really hope the AAPC finds a resolution that everyone can accept, and one that addresses the many concerns of those in the profession, as well as those ,like myself, who are new, and would just love an opportunity to prove they are very serious about working in this profession. We are not all just looking for a quick way to get a job to be paid big money, some of us have made some very big sacrifices to per sue this, and would just love a chance to prove ourselves. I do have to admit though, I am becoming quite dissapointed that this issue is still not resolved. I have followed this post since it started, and some time before that. I am getting to a point where I may have to go find another organization, where I might be able to move forward. I really do not want to, but I have spent enough time worrying about this, there comes a point when you just have to make a decision on what you need to do. I'll keep my fingers crossed!!
 
Pam, you're assuming that everyone who took the CPC exam, before the AAPC added the apprentice designation somehow had more knowledge and experience. How can that be true? Some, to be sure, but, certainly, not all. The only requirement before was experience, but that could have meant sitting in a job coding the same codes day in and day out. And if you've read any of the comments here, you'd know that many people who have lots of experience coding have failed the exam!!!!!!

Also, you seem to be under the impression that the test for CPC-A's is somehow different from the test for CPC's. Well, it's not. We all took the same test.

Absolutely "elevate the difficulty of the CPC exam" and make everyone re-test. That would be leveling the playing field. And you'd certainly weed-out the "huge glut of inexperienced (and unemployed) would-be coders."

I certainly do understand that the examination is the same for CPC-As as it would be for a CPC. And I'm not assuming that coders prior to the 'A' designation had more knowledge and experience. They absolutely did have more experience. What you may not realize is that previously, in order to sit for the CPC exam, you had to have at least 2-3 years experience in the field, as a coder/biller along with two letters of recommendation from your management or administrators (on company letterhead) that indicated you had experience and knowledge of CPT, ICD-9 and HCPCS, and were well prepared to sit for the exam. And that would mean that you had to do more than just code the same codes day in and day out, as you suggest would have been sufficient experience. Irregardless, two years experience within the revenue cycle is better than no experience that I see with a lot of coding apprentices. Someone in management had to vouch for your ability to do the work before you could even take the exam. That's because it is well recognized that coding is not an entry level job, and in order to be deemed a certified coder, you had to have that experience first. And once you had the CPC after your name, you had both the credential and the experience. It was an unfair disadvantage to allow coding students to sit, and then expect them to be able to be hired.

I also know that people with coding experience have failed the exam. (and it makes you wonder about the vailidity of their coding to begin with). But from an employer's perspective, the only way to gauge a coders' broad knowledge and understanding of the field is to ask for credentials. We license nurses and doctors, and while they may be fabulous practitioners, without that license, they are not physicians or nurses, whether or not they "test well".

I do read the comments (and post quite a few myself), so I understand where many of the coding apprentices are coming from. Please don't assume I'm clueless about the plight of the new coders, just because I'm telling it from the point of view of a hiring manager.
 
I have a Certificate as a Medical Secretary, some medical office experience, recent graduation and certificate as an HIMT Coding Specialist from my local community college and recently passed the credentialing exam and have the designation of CPC-A. I can't get my foot in the door at all in my area. I am dismayed that people are not hiring CPC-A's, as most in the past were not credentialed at all but just received on the job training and were paid. If you became a CPC or CCS or whatever after two years or more of experience in the medical administrative field who gave you that chance? Who hired you with no experience so that you could become experienced? This is the quandry, no one can afford to volunteer two years of training to a physicians office or hospital in order to gain experience. Most professionals who are required to to and internship or apprenticeship are paid while gaining the experience they need to remove the apprenticeship designation. Medical Assistants are hired right out of college or school in physicians offices, hospitals, no experience even asked for. But somehow, someone going through the schooling and credentialing process for this type of work is not considered experienced enough to do the job. As a newly credentialed coder I expect that I will have to learn alot ON THE JOB, it is a no brainer how important this is. Now you are telling me after I have paid and passed this test that unless I have the required experience before a certain date I will be required to take yet another test at my expense? And if I cannot find a job in this field, I am going to get this money where? Will it guarantee me employment with still no experience?I have not seen a job description yet that has included hiring anyone with NO experience, or entry level accepted.
 
pjwils15,

I beg to differ with your comment about internships being paid. Physicians may be paid as they do their intership and residency, but most other professions are NOT paid for internships. I did a 13 week internship that was a mandatory part of my curriculum (many moons ago). Not only did I not receive pay, I had to pay for that semester of college (as it was part of my education), AND I had to support myself during that time, as my place of internship was two hours from home. (We only had three choices at that time for the internship). I worked three jobs while going to college full-time, had a car payment and supported myself, so I do understand the dilema some people have. In the long run, it was well worth the time, effort and money spent!!

And in case you are thinking I am one example, I am not! I volunteer at a facility (not work related) and they have interns from all over the country. Those interns are there for a semester of their college program, do not get paid, and have to pay their expenses as well. Also, some trades have apprentice programs, and they may be paid, but I know of a couple people that apprenticed and they made minimum wage until their apprentice hours were completed. So while they did get paid something, it probably wasn't enough to support them, much less the family they had.

Again, I go back to what has been commented on many times. It is up to each person to know the requirements of the program they are taking, as well as what the local area requires to get hired. Then you make an informed decision on what will or will not work for you. Its rough out there, but we are each responsible to only our self! I am extremely happy with the sacrifices I made (again, many moons ago) to get to where I am today.

*pardon any typing errors, I was on my iphone!
 
None of the externships I am aware of in this area (for coders) are paid. Do any of the instructors on this board offer paid externships to their students?
Who pays the salaries? The school or the physician?

There definitely are entry level jobs available. I have one open now, and I had nearly 30 applicants; most of whom had their CPC-A. The ones I did not consider were excluded for reasons other than lack of experience.

If a CPC-A applies for a job that requires 5 years experience, they are most likely going to be deemed unqualified. I have another position open for a coder that requries several years of experience, and most of the candidates have been doing this work for 10+ years. There is no way I would consider a coder right out of school for this position.

The reason medical assistants are hired right out of school is because the work is relatively unrelated to revenue. Most physicians prefer to train their MAs "their way", and they are more comfortable supervising another clinical person. When it comes to coding and billing, physicians break out into a sweat--it's way outside their comfort zone and they typically turf that to someone else. Actually, I've worked as an MA. Coding is way, way more complicated.

I think that you'll find that everyone who is relatively far along in their coding careers started out in very entry-level positions.
I was hired at a mental health agency with no experience after receiving an AS in Medical Office Management to answer phones and schedule patients, and eventually post payments, because the pay was so poor and the neighborhood and clientele so sketchy, that nobody else applied for the job! That's how I got my foot in the door. More than ten years later, I was a CPC.
 
Ok...

I took a one year Coding/Billing program approved by the AAPC for the CPC certification...let me rephrase that: The diploma course was geared toward the CPC certification. I took, and passed (first go) my AAPC CPC certification exam. I became a CPC-A
Here is the AAPC's requirement for dropping the -A. (and as it was when I graduated in 2010 and as currently posted on the website) Btw, I have worked for over a year in the EHR field.

"Apprentice Removal: On-the-Job Experience

To remove your apprentice designation via on-the-job experience, you must obtain and submit two letters of recommendation verifying at least two years of on-the-job experience (externships accepted) using the CPT®, ICD-9-CM, or HCPCS Level II code sets. One letter must be on letterhead from your employer*, the other may be from a co-worker. Both letters are required to be signed and will need to outline your coding experience and amount of time in that capacity. Download our Apprentice Removal Template for easier submission. Letterhead and signatures are still required when using this template.

OR

Submit proof showing completion of at least 80 hours of coding education AND one letter, on letterhead, signed from your employer verifying one year of on-the-job experience (externships accepted) using the CPT, ICD-9-CM, or HCPCS Level II code sets.

Send proof of education in the form of a letter from an instructor on school letterhead stating the 80 hour course has been completed, a certificate/diploma stating at least 80 contact hours, or a school transcript.

One new requirement option now for dropping the -A designation is:
Effective July 1, 2012, the CPC-A credential will no longer be granted. All current CPC-As would have their “A” removed by doing one of the following:
1. Getting at least one year of on-the-job experience no later than 12/31/2013, (helpful to those with a job and currently working towards that end)

My minimum 80 hours of coding education was counted "as" one year experience (in "lieu of" one year's experience) towards my Apprenticeship.
That was the arrangement when I became "certified."
So, all I need to do, after July 1st 2012, is to submit my letter from that Institution as proof of one year experience.
Correct?
 
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This seems very vague "on-the-job experience (externships accepted) using the CPT®, ICD-9-CM, or HCPCS Level II code sets".

For some, this could mean just filling out billing forms checking off the same codes every day (small private practice, small specialty clinics, etc) to others who extensively work with codes by extracting them from large reports/charts of a variety of specialties (hospitals, ASCs, etc).

However, your resume, and hopefully your interview, will display what type of "experience" you have. With that, the potential employer can decide if you have the "experience" they are looking for.

But from reading some of these posts (here and other forums), it seems as if some employers won't even bother reading the resume if they see the scarlet "A" on it. Then it's the employer's loss and ignorance for doing that.
 
Ok...

IMy minimum 80 hours of coding education was counted "as" one year experience (in "lieu of" one year's experience) towards my Apprenticeship.
That was the arrangement when I became "certified."
So, all I need to do, after July 1st 2012, is to submit my letter from that Institution as proof of one year experience.
Correct?

The part you quoted about what happens after July 1st is just a proposal at this time. To the best of my knowledge nothing official has been stated. Based on the comments here and elsewhere, I would be surprised if the proposal goes into effect exactly as it was outlined in the January Coding Edge.

Even if it did, the new proposal makes no mention of substituting classroom for on the job experience, as is the case currently.
 
The part you quoted about what happens after July 1st is just a proposal at this time. To the best of my knowledge nothing official has been stated. Based on the comments here and elsewhere, I would be surprised if the proposal goes into effect exactly as it was outlined in the January Coding Edge.

Even if it did, the new proposal makes no mention of substituting classroom for on the job experience, as is the case currently.

The issue that I take is that the requirements now being considered are game changers for some of us.
We only needed one year of verified employment in the field.
The education was counted as satisfactory enough to constitute one of the two years of "experience" necessary.
If only one year is necessary at the possible July date, then those who have those minimum 80 hours should receive the benefit of that education"as advertised."
In other words, if the education is still being considered as constituting one year of experience today, why should that change in July?

Mind you, I've got my time in.
To consider those who have obtained the educational requirements and successfully passed the CPC Certification Exam as now needing to pass another exam and discounting their education is a tad unfair.
 
Help

I have been in a catch 22 for about a year. I passed my CPC at first attempt because I did go to school and study hard. I am not financially able to pay for yet another exam that will not gaurantee me employment. I have been out of work for some time so just renewing my certification was costly for me, but what choice did I have? Let my hard earned credential lapse and lose all that time and money already spent? I sent letters out to all medical offices and hospitals in my area asking to intern just for the experience but have had no bites. People want experience. I have the credential and schooling, but no on the job experience so no one wants to give me a chance even for free due to "liability" reasons. I can't help but feel scammed by a system designed to protect the veterans with job security. What do I do now? Can some experienced coders please offer some advise as to how to break into the field? I am one of those people on assistance that desperately wants my life back. I not only need employment, I want one so I no longer feel like a charity case. I am capable of working and should be. HELP!
 
I'm not paying to renew my membership. I'm not paying to take another test. This is ridiculous. I passes this exam on the first try, not only this test, but also the NCICS (National certified insurance and coding specialist) test on the first try. Am I working in my field of study? NO!! With that being said, I am done!!
 
Credential Loss

As others, I am a little distressed over the A elimination. I have felt that it is not the "A" that has kept me from employment consideration, but rather the lack of experience. I have applied for employment stringently since passing the CPC exam with minimal success. I just do not have the "hands-on" experience. Passing a 20 question exam is not going to give me this experience either. Not to say that the exam would not be a beneficial experience, but to use it as a criteria for A removal and charge money for it, denigrates the credential. In other words, fee for a service which does not expand time-in-grade or experience.

My biggest concern - losing my credential. I worked very hard completing the AAPC independent study course, additional studying for and passing the exam. Does this mean that if I don't complete one year and/or sit for exam, I will lose my credential?

Concerned
 
Has anyone thought about those students who graduate with a Bachelor's degree and then go on to get a Master's degree? Most students will graduate only to find out that they cannot find a job after they've completed 6-8 years of college and also have the tremendous burden of student loan repayments staring them in the face. I think that, as coders, we have it easy. We don't even have to have a college education to get a job yet we work with many professionals who have high level college educations. I think the AAPC must hold us to a higher standard and if that means working as a coder for a year or taking two tests, then so be it! Coders MUST be knowledgeable about the medical field and if a newly credentialed CPC goes into a medical office with no experience, they are going to be totally lost. Especially if they went through a terrible program like I did. I learned how to code on the job and through my own research and experience, not in class. Real life is nothing like the AAPC certified classes that I have heard of or experienced myself. Ask a newly credentialed CPC with no experience how to explain a consult clearly to a physician who has been practicing for 30 years. I believe that we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard because of the field we work in. We affect patients medical records for the rest of their lives and can potentially cost physcians their jobs if we teach them to code incorrectly. I had to have a year of coding experience after I received my CPC-A and I think that was totally fair. I worked hard to find a job and I worked hard to learn as much as I could while on the job. I feel very strongly that we have to look at our careers just like any other student would look at a career. When you are just starting out, you may have to start at the bottom and work your way up. That's life!
 
I have been in a catch 22 for about a year. I passed my CPC at first attempt because I did go to school and study hard. I am not financially able to pay for yet another exam that will not gaurantee me employment. I have been out of work for some time so just renewing my certification was costly for me, but what choice did I have? Let my hard earned credential lapse and lose all that time and money already spent? I sent letters out to all medical offices and hospitals in my area asking to intern just for the experience but have had no bites. People want experience. I have the credential and schooling, but no on the job experience so no one wants to give me a chance even for free due to "liability" reasons. I can't help but feel scammed by a system designed to protect the veterans with job security. What do I do now? Can some experienced coders please offer some advise as to how to break into the field? I am one of those people on assistance that desperately wants my life back. I not only need employment, I want one so I no longer feel like a charity case. I am capable of working and should be. HELP!

terrahbooks,

While I sincerely applaud your schooling and certification, I take issue with your comment about feeling scammed to protect veterans with job security. Who scammed you? Who promised you a job, was it the "veterans" or was it the school that wanted your money? I think your anger and/or frustration is misplaced. Many veteran coders have given advice for seeking jobs in previous posts, if you and the others would care to search for those posts. I hesitate to offer advice again, as I think a lot of senior coders do, not because we don't want to help, but because we got tired of being trashed ALL the time for being "condescending, patronizing, etc." We offered good, solid advice, but because a lot of newbies didn't seem to want to start at the bottom, or work for a billing service, or any of the other suggestions we offered (the same things that many of us "veterans" started with), we were continuously told that we were offensive, patronizing and condescending, demeening, among other things, some of them very rude as well. I know many veteran coders and we have all worked very hard to get where we are. There also seems to be a lot of newbies saying that with ICD-10, it will level the playing field. This also is not entirely correct, as the veterans have the additional knowledge that most schools don't teach, and that is how the insurance and billing process works, how rule-making at CMS works, and many other things that won't change with ICD-10. Yes, there will be some adjustments to some of those rules and practices, but for the most part, that kind of knowledge is learned on the job and by experience. I don't want to start another debate here, but I personally think someone should have to have two years experience prior to sitting for your certification. I believe many schools and courses have done many people a disservice (maybe not all) by "promising" you a job, working from home and making boocoo bucks. Its really not fair. I also know many veterans on here that have tried to offer the advice to check with some physician offices in your area and see if what the schools are promising is correct. Talk to other coders (or those in any other profession you may be interested in) and find out from them what it takes to get hired in your area. Also, not all veteran coders are able to assist newbies. I have mentored several newbies in the past when I was able to, and my current employer has internship, but not everyone is in that position. And just to let you know, I remember where I came from, I remember how hard I worked to jump to the next level!!

Again, Kudos on your education and initative!
 
None of this really makes ANY sense to me. I graduated from an AAPC- approved 1 yr. rigorous coding school 1 yr. ago. At the same time, I was/am pursuing an A.S. degree in Health Information Technology (will graduate in May and then take the RHIT exam). I passed the AAPC certification exam as a CPC-A. I have been very diligent trying to get any experience to get rid of the "A" on the end. I have tried to participate in the Apprentice program that AAPC offers, with the closest office being 45 minutes away from me and they had nothing available for me. My question to ALL seasoned coders, hiring managers, etc.. is how do we gain experience (and therefore get rid of the "A" on our credential) if no one is willing to hire non-experienced coders??? You can't get experience if you don't have any experience!!! It is highly FRUSTRATING!!!!! Passing the CPC exam was grueling in and of its self only to be "awarded" with a credential that means nothing...and even less than nothing if you have the scarlet "A' attached. Woopee, now I get to pay more money, and take yet another test to get rid of the "A".....and guess what, still no experience, so still NO JOB!!!!!

I am highly-motivated and generally possess a positive attitude, but this whole thing really rubs me the wrong way!!! Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Happy New Year!!
:confused::mad::(

You may want to check with AAPC and see if your degree class for RHIT can be counted as time towards your experiance. Back in "06" mine did. I didn't want to get the CPC-A
so I used my school (AAS HIM) they gave me one year of time for this (because of my class structure) and one year for my fist year of employment after finishing school.
 
Well said my friend :)

terrahbooks,

While I sincerely applaud your schooling and certification, I take issue with your comment about feeling scammed to protect veterans with job security. Who scammed you? Who promised you a job, was it the "veterans" or was it the school that wanted your money? I think your anger and/or frustration is misplaced. Many veteran coders have given advice for seeking jobs in previous posts, if you and the others would care to search for those posts. I hesitate to offer advice again, as I think a lot of senior coders do, not because we don't want to help, but because we got tired of being trashed ALL the time for being "condescending, patronizing, etc." We offered good, solid advice, but because a lot of newbies didn't seem to want to start at the bottom, or work for a billing service, or any of the other suggestions we offered (the same things that many of us "veterans" started with), we were continuously told that we were offensive, patronizing and condescending, demeening, among other things, some of them very rude as well. I know many veteran coders and we have all worked very hard to get where we are. There also seems to be a lot of newbies saying that with ICD-10, it will level the playing field. This also is not entirely correct, as the veterans have the additional knowledge that most schools don't teach, and that is how the insurance and billing process works, how rule-making at CMS works, and many other things that won't change with ICD-10. Yes, there will be some adjustments to some of those rules and practices, but for the most part, that kind of knowledge is learned on the job and by experience. I don't want to start another debate here, but I personally think someone should have to have two years experience prior to sitting for your certification. I believe many schools and courses have done many people a disservice (maybe not all) by "promising" you a job, working from home and making boocoo bucks. Its really not fair. I also know many veterans on here that have tried to offer the advice to check with some physician offices in your area and see if what the schools are promising is correct. Talk to other coders (or those in any other profession you may be interested in) and find out from them what it takes to get hired in your area. Also, not all veteran coders are able to assist newbies. I have mentored several newbies in the past when I was able to, and my current employer has internship, but not everyone is in that position. And just to let you know, I remember where I came from, I remember how hard I worked to jump to the next level!!

Again, Kudos on your education and initative!

Very well put Machelle! I do believe you speak for the vast majority of us "seasoned/veteran" coders.

Kudos to you for speaking up!
 
I really am apprehensive to chime in on this thread/subject however, I will. I was in the field for about 10 years before I was interested in coding. It was not until then that I decided to go and become certified. That is the way it should be. You have to learn all aspects of the medical field and insurance and laws, regulations, etc. before just "taking a test" to become a credentialed coder. Most of the people who cannot break into the field are those who decided to get into this field thinking they would make quick, lucrative cash. You have to love a profession/field or calling before you go into it and call it your own or make a living from it. This, I believe, is where the difference is. How do you know you want something that you have never done before? Just because you MAY get to work from home (which is not always what is is cracked up to be) or to make 50,000.00 a year. It takes many , many years of blood, sweat and tears to get where you want to be, not just three little letters after your name.
Those who are certified, even with the A after it, Don't give up! Keep looking, learning and by all means, do not let your credential go.

Sincerely,

Kristin Felty CPC, CCC, CCVTC
 
CPC-A designation

I've had my "A" for almost 3 years. I went back to school in the Health Information Technology program at my college because there weren't any coding jobs, they were outsourcing, or they wanted 2-3 years experience. (Although, I think passing the certification exam should count as partial experience.)
I had planned on taking the 800 question online exam when I finished my classes. But after learning about this exam, I was thrilled. I realize that a 90 percent will be required to pass, but I feel I have a better chance of doing so now then when I took the certification exam. The first coding classes I took weren't nearly as detailed as the ones I'm taking now. I hope this goes through.
 
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